Post by Marine Mike on Nov 3, 2016 10:45:53 GMT
Since PT-91 is doing some fiddly stuff to the numbers (Armour streamlining, alterations to hit mechanisms etc)
I'm running a few as of yet untested vehicles and weapons. I'm eyeing Ostfront versions of PT-91/T-90 vehicles for the time being (both are Ostfront-derived modern games; PT-91 is much less mature but aims for more streamlining and has more infantry options.), as we're most likely to merge the "old" T-90 and PT-91 once we have them improved and ready to roll out. All these vehicles are post-war, obviously, and should, in fact, be part of a Late Cold War period. This is going to be a preview package that I hope to make playable and actually fun while keeping things Ostfront (ie with adding as little as possible on top of a system that works very well already)
Again, these are extremely untested and the values are in anticipation of an entirely different set of vehicles. The ATGM may destroy any WW2 vehicle with ease but bear in mind it's going to be facing off against much more dangerous tanks. Some of these rules are ported or outright lifted from the modern variants but are simplified.
tl;dr: attempt to use modern vehicles in Ostfront. More hilarious than sensible.
The gun progression post-war, as I see it, is roughly:
Post-war 90mm/Soviet 100mm: 1+/+3 (ammo improvements) (M48 Pattons, T-55)
Early 105mm guns Soviet 115mm, early Soviet 125mm : 0+/+4 (M60 Pattons, T-62, early T-64, Leopard 1s)
Mid-run 105mm guns, late Soviet 115mm, Soviet 125mm : -1+/+5 (Late model M60 Pattons, early T-72, late model Leopard 1s)
Early 120mm guns, modern 105mm guns, late Soviet 125mm: -2+/+6 (Early model Abrams, early Leopard 2s, late-model T-72s, early T-80s)
Modern 120mm guns, modern Russian 125mm: -3+/+7 (Current model Abrams, current model Leopard 2s, T-90s, late-model T-80s)
HOWITZER BATTERIES & INFANTRY:
All infantry and Howitzers cost twice the WW2 price in Late Cold War.
STABILIZER
A gun with a Stabilizer can be fired with no movement penalty.
COMPOSITE ARMOUR FACINGS
The hallmark of modern warfare, Composite Armour is typically mounted on modern Main Battle Tanks. Unlike the traditional metal armour, it's good at defeating shaped charges and automatically provides +2 to Hit and -2 to Damage against Shaped Charges. Otherwise, it behaves mostly like an improved side track of Heavy armours. Vehicles with at least a C2 facing count as Heavy Vehicles.
Let's talk a little about the whys: there are new Shaped Charge ATGMs which represent a major threat to tanks. Composite armour is designed to stop them and does a pretty good job at it. This comes with a few caveats, however. While the armour is quite effective at stopping shells, modern MBTs tend to focus it on the front. That is why you'll find that while they are goint to have terrifyingly good frontal armour, the basic variants are still vulnerable from the sides or the rear. Most modern MBTs offer applique packages and these will be available as separate vehicles. In fact, no one actually uses the base variants in combat precisely because of how their armour is somewhat insufficient to protect anything but the front. You'll notice that Composite armours tend to be either in the C0 or C6+ flavours; that's because IFVs sometimes use composites to get some protection from RPGs. Other than that, composite armour tends to provide much better protection in general - while late RHA tanks are sturdier than the strongest WW2 designs, the gun and ammunition development made them somewhat squishy. Modern composite armours give tanks a chance to shrug off shots from incredibly lethal modern rounds.
C0: +0 Hit. -0 Damage. +2 to Hit vs SC, -2 Damage vs SC.
C1: +1 Hit. -1 Damage. +3 to Hit vs SC, -3 Damage vs SC.
C2: +2 Hit. -2 Damage. +4 to Hit vs SC, -4 Damage vs SC.
C3: +3 Hit. -3 Damage. +5 to Hit vs SC, -5 Damage vs SC.
C4: +4 Hit. -4 Damage. +6 to Hit vs SC, -6 Damage vs SC.
etc.
We'll also extend the Heavy armours:
H5: +5 Hit, -5 Damage
H6: +6 Hit, -6 Damage
etc
ERA
Explosive reactive armour is mounted on an armour facing. It only provides protection as long as you have at least one ERA level on that facing. Every time the vehicle is hit, an ERA level is expended. This means either a successful Hit roll or if the roll result would have been a hit for a 4+ weapon on Medium armour. Any infantry within 1 inch of an ERA facing rolls for damage if a level is expended. When the ERA level is expended and the weapon has the Shaped Charged feature, it automatically fails and doesn't roll for damage. If the ERA level is expended and the weapon does not have the Shaped Charge feature, the attacker has to perform and succeed a second Hit roll that does not expend additional ERA levels before rolling for damage..
SHAPED CHARGE
These weapons are exceptionally deadly against conventional armour but can't target infantry. They are stopped by ERA and are less effective against modern composite armour.
If this weapon Retains HE, it can target infantry.
If this feature is listed on a gun, that means the most effective round for this specific gun model was a HEAT round. While it means ERA can stop them, it was still very effective against RHA so we assume HEAT is fired by default even if sabot rounds for the gun did exist; otherwise we could just do away with ERA entirely.
COMMON WEAPONS
US ARMED FORCES
Weapons
Vehicles
BRITISH ARMY
Weapons
Vehicles
SOVIET ARMY
Weapons
Vehicles
I'm running a few as of yet untested vehicles and weapons. I'm eyeing Ostfront versions of PT-91/T-90 vehicles for the time being (both are Ostfront-derived modern games; PT-91 is much less mature but aims for more streamlining and has more infantry options.), as we're most likely to merge the "old" T-90 and PT-91 once we have them improved and ready to roll out. All these vehicles are post-war, obviously, and should, in fact, be part of a Late Cold War period. This is going to be a preview package that I hope to make playable and actually fun while keeping things Ostfront (ie with adding as little as possible on top of a system that works very well already)
Again, these are extremely untested and the values are in anticipation of an entirely different set of vehicles. The ATGM may destroy any WW2 vehicle with ease but bear in mind it's going to be facing off against much more dangerous tanks. Some of these rules are ported or outright lifted from the modern variants but are simplified.
tl;dr: attempt to use modern vehicles in Ostfront. More hilarious than sensible.
The gun progression post-war, as I see it, is roughly:
Post-war 90mm/Soviet 100mm: 1+/+3 (ammo improvements) (M48 Pattons, T-55)
Early 105mm guns Soviet 115mm, early Soviet 125mm : 0+/+4 (M60 Pattons, T-62, early T-64, Leopard 1s)
Mid-run 105mm guns, late Soviet 115mm, Soviet 125mm : -1+/+5 (Late model M60 Pattons, early T-72, late model Leopard 1s)
Early 120mm guns, modern 105mm guns, late Soviet 125mm: -2+/+6 (Early model Abrams, early Leopard 2s, late-model T-72s, early T-80s)
Modern 120mm guns, modern Russian 125mm: -3+/+7 (Current model Abrams, current model Leopard 2s, T-90s, late-model T-80s)
HOWITZER BATTERIES & INFANTRY:
All infantry and Howitzers cost twice the WW2 price in Late Cold War.
STABILIZER
A gun with a Stabilizer can be fired with no movement penalty.
COMPOSITE ARMOUR FACINGS
The hallmark of modern warfare, Composite Armour is typically mounted on modern Main Battle Tanks. Unlike the traditional metal armour, it's good at defeating shaped charges and automatically provides +2 to Hit and -2 to Damage against Shaped Charges. Otherwise, it behaves mostly like an improved side track of Heavy armours. Vehicles with at least a C2 facing count as Heavy Vehicles.
Let's talk a little about the whys: there are new Shaped Charge ATGMs which represent a major threat to tanks. Composite armour is designed to stop them and does a pretty good job at it. This comes with a few caveats, however. While the armour is quite effective at stopping shells, modern MBTs tend to focus it on the front. That is why you'll find that while they are goint to have terrifyingly good frontal armour, the basic variants are still vulnerable from the sides or the rear. Most modern MBTs offer applique packages and these will be available as separate vehicles. In fact, no one actually uses the base variants in combat precisely because of how their armour is somewhat insufficient to protect anything but the front. You'll notice that Composite armours tend to be either in the C0 or C6+ flavours; that's because IFVs sometimes use composites to get some protection from RPGs. Other than that, composite armour tends to provide much better protection in general - while late RHA tanks are sturdier than the strongest WW2 designs, the gun and ammunition development made them somewhat squishy. Modern composite armours give tanks a chance to shrug off shots from incredibly lethal modern rounds.
C0: +0 Hit. -0 Damage. +2 to Hit vs SC, -2 Damage vs SC.
C1: +1 Hit. -1 Damage. +3 to Hit vs SC, -3 Damage vs SC.
C2: +2 Hit. -2 Damage. +4 to Hit vs SC, -4 Damage vs SC.
C3: +3 Hit. -3 Damage. +5 to Hit vs SC, -5 Damage vs SC.
C4: +4 Hit. -4 Damage. +6 to Hit vs SC, -6 Damage vs SC.
etc.
We'll also extend the Heavy armours:
H5: +5 Hit, -5 Damage
H6: +6 Hit, -6 Damage
etc
ERA
Explosive reactive armour is mounted on an armour facing. It only provides protection as long as you have at least one ERA level on that facing. Every time the vehicle is hit, an ERA level is expended. This means either a successful Hit roll or if the roll result would have been a hit for a 4+ weapon on Medium armour. Any infantry within 1 inch of an ERA facing rolls for damage if a level is expended. When the ERA level is expended and the weapon has the Shaped Charged feature, it automatically fails and doesn't roll for damage. If the ERA level is expended and the weapon does not have the Shaped Charge feature, the attacker has to perform and succeed a second Hit roll that does not expend additional ERA levels before rolling for damage..
SHAPED CHARGE
These weapons are exceptionally deadly against conventional armour but can't target infantry. They are stopped by ERA and are less effective against modern composite armour.
If this weapon Retains HE, it can target infantry.
If this feature is listed on a gun, that means the most effective round for this specific gun model was a HEAT round. While it means ERA can stop them, it was still very effective against RHA so we assume HEAT is fired by default even if sabot rounds for the gun did exist; otherwise we could just do away with ERA entirely.
COMMON WEAPONS
Name | Range | Hit | Type | Fires | Notes |
RPG | 24" | 2+ | +2 | Always | Shaped Charge. Replaces rocket launchers in Late Cold War. |
Portable ATGM | 60" | -4+ | +8 | Always | Shaped Charge. One shot. +5 to infantry unit cost. Can only be fired if the unit hasn't moved this turn. |
RPG-27 | 24" | -4+ | +8 | Always | One shot. +25 to infantry unit cost. |
US ARMED FORCES
Weapons
Name | Range | Hit | Type | Fires | Notes |
M242 Chain Gun | 36" | 3+ | +1 | Always | Autocannon (+1 vs infantry) |
TOW AT Missile | 60" | -3+ | +7 | 3+ | Can only be fired if the vehicle hasn't moved this turn. Shaped Charge. |
105mm M68 | 60" | -1+ | +5 | Always | Shaped Charge. Retains HE. |
105mm M68A1 | 60" | -2+ | +6 | Always |
Vehicles
Name | Cost | Move | Hit | Weapon | Type | Ar. Front | Ar. Sides | Ar. Rear | Notes |
M2 Bradley | 30 | 5.5" | 3+/-1+ | M242 Chain Gun & TOW AT Missile | +1/+5 | Medium | Medium | Medium | Standard Carrier. No hull MG. |
M2A2 Bradley | 35 | 5.5" | 3+/-1+ | M242 Chain Gun & TOW AT Missile | +1/+5 | C0 | C0 | C0 | Standard Carrier. No hull MG. 2 ERA Front, 2 ERA each side. |
M60A3 | 50 | 5" | -1+ | 105mm M68 | +5 | H4 | H | M | Stabilizer. No hull MG. |
M60A3 ERA | 60 | 5" | -1+ | 105mm M68 | +5 | H4 | H | M | 3 ERA Front, 2 ERA each side. Stabilizer. No hull MG. |
M1 Abrams | 135 | 7" | -2+ | 105mm M68A1 | +6 | C8 | C3 | Heavy 2 | Stabilizer. No hull MG. |
M1 Abrams ERA | 140 | 7" | -2+ | 105mm M68A1 | +6 | C8 | C3 | Heavy 2 | 1 ERA Front, 3 ERA each side. Stabilizer. No hull MG. |
BRITISH ARMY
Weapons
Name | Range | Hit | Type | Fires | Notes |
L21A1 RARDEN | 36" | 2+ | +2 | Always | Autocannon (+1 vs infantry) |
120mm L11A5 | 60" | -2+ | +6 | Always |
Vehicles
Name | Cost | Move | Hit | Weapon | Type | Ar. Front | Ar. Sides | Ar. Rear | Notes |
Warrior MCV | 25 | 6.5" | 2+ | L21A1 RARDEN | +2 | Medium | Light | Light | Standard Carrier. No hull MG. |
Warrior Applique | 30 | 6.5" | 2+ | L21A1 RARDEN | +2 | C0 | C0 | Light | Standard Carrier. No hull MG. 2 ERA Front, 2 ERA each side. |
Challenger 1 | 150 | 5.5" | -2+ | 120mm L11A5 | +6 | C9 | C5 | Heavy 2 | No hull MG. |
Challenger 1 ERA | 160 | 5.5" | -2+ | 120mm L11A5 | +6 | C9 | C5 | Heavy 2 | No hull MG. 2 ERA front, 2 ERA each side. |
SOVIET ARMY
Weapons
Name | Range | Hit | Type | Fires | Notes |
125mm 2A46 | 60" | -1+ | +5 | Always | Shaped Charge. Retains HE. |
125mm 2A46M | 60" | -2+ | +6 | Always |
Vehicles
Name | Cost | Move | Hit | Weapon | Type | Ar. Front | Ar. Sides | Ar. Rear | Notes |
T-72 | 65 | 6" | -1+ | 125mm 2A46 | +5 | H6 | H2 | Heavy | Stabilizer. No hull MG. |
T-72V | 75 | 6" | -1+ | 125mm 2A46 | +5 | H6 | H2 | Heavy | 3 ERA Front, 2 ERA each side. Stabilizer. No hull MG. |
T-72A | 120 | 6" | -2+ | 125mm 2A46M | +6 | C7 | C2 | Heavy | Stabilizer. No hull MG. |
T-72AV | 130 | 6" | -2+ | 125mm 2A46M | +6 | C7 | C2 | Heavy | 4 ERA Front, 2 ERA each side. Stabilizer. No hull MG. |
T-72BV | 150 | 6" | -2+ | 125mm 2A46M | +6 | C9 | C3 | Heavy 2 | 5 ERA Front, 3 ERA each side. Stabilizer. No hull MG. |